Blindsight (Watts Novel)

(en.wikipedia.org)

49 points | by mooreds 2 hours ago

11 comments

  • hannofcart 19 minutes ago
    This is one of the books that left me with the most profound sense of unease. And it deserves very high prait for being able to do that.

    While people might remember it for other more striking ideas, I was impressed with how it expounds the theory behind the claims that "intelligence implies violence". That entire narrative was quite chilling.

    That, and the way the author explains how to establish a means of communication using just... pain.

    It's a brilliant book.

    • exe34 13 minutes ago
      I read it every couple of years and it makes me feel weird for several weeks at a time. Like nothing is real, nothing matters, I'm not really here. I eventually snap out of it, but it's an odd feeling.
      • GolfPopper 6 minutes ago
        There's a quote from James D. Nicoll, "Whenever I find my will to live becoming too strong, I read Peter Watts."
  • sxp 2 hours ago
    This is one of my favorite books and it's fun to read for anyone interested in the AI consciousness debate. https://hpmorpodcast.com/blindsided-00-announcement/ is a podcast that read the book last year. And https://blindsight.space/ is a Watts' approved website that has a short film/movie trailer for the book.
    • jvanderbot 44 minutes ago
      The marginal / ancillary discussion of the usefulness of people in a post GAI world was really interesting. The best part of this discussion was that the protagonists entire job is to translate ideas that are too hard to understand into a tangible/actionalbe "surface area". Essentially - a policy-maker interface that treats superintelligence as a "black box".

      I have an excerpt of the book explaining this here: https://jodavaho.io/posts/books-blindsight.html

      The discussion about non-conscious intelligence was less so (I see ants every day!). But this is a new idea dense book to say the least - if you love worldbuilding, please pick it up.

    • phasefactor 1 hour ago
      And the authors blog/website is: https://www.rifters.com/crawl/
    • bobbiechen 44 minutes ago
      Imo Greg Egan's Permutation City is a far more interesting exploration of consciousness.
    • zetsurin 2 hours ago
      Second book echopraxia is good too
  • tga 1 hour ago
    For a dissenting opinion: boring, marginally pretentious book. Tries to bring up some interesting ideas, but loses the plot along the way. Also random Dracula in space. Couldn't get myself to finish it.
    • ceejayoz 59 minutes ago
      Watts did a whole academic presentation on the science of vampirism in the book's context. It's a fun watch and makes it feel much less random. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEOUaJW05bU

      If you want a really shoehorned scifi vampire, there's a David Weber book in which it comes out of fucking nowhere towards the end.

      • SigmundA 20 minutes ago
        Best explanation for vampires not liking crosses I have ever seen. I always enjoy vampires that are explained scientifically for some reason in fiction, its like some sort of challenge and they usually avoid the whole dislike of crosses, not here, thought it was a decent attempt along with many other ideas in the book, very enjoyable to me.
        • krapp 8 minutes ago
          My favorite explanation for it - and I forget where it's from, but it probably isn't uncommon - is that vampires who were humans raised in Christian cultures believe themselves to be damned by God when they turn because that's what the folklore says, and that belief and self-hatred manifests as a phobic aversion to religious symbolism.
    • trescenzi 1 hour ago
      I felt similar. I finished it but couldn’t finish the sequel. The primary idea was “intelligence can take different shapes” and I kept reading to get insightful descriptions of these different shapes but they never really came. I don’t disagree with the premise it just didn’t really get across the message very well.
      • ceejayoz 58 minutes ago
        > The primary idea was “intelligence can take different shapes”…

        IIRC, it was more "intelligence may be a maladaptive dead-end".

        • icegreentea2 50 minutes ago
          The book makes pains to draw a line between consciousness (or meta consciousness) and intelligence. I don't think he really argued that intelligence is maladaptive, but does argue that meta consciousness might be.
          • trescenzi 35 minutes ago
            Yea I took it as consciousness was maladaptive and sort of a local maxima that humans were trapped in which prevented them from gaining higher intelligences.
    • drayfield 1 hour ago
      Unfortunately I have to agree with you. I finally got round to this to see what the fuss was about, and was very disappointed. Oblique to the point of baffling and unlikable characters aplenty.
    • glokta 52 minutes ago
      Exactly my thought. It's hard to take any sci-fi novel with space vampires seriously.
      • GolfPopper 20 minutes ago
        Blindsight has "space vampires" in much the same way that Lord of the Rings has "crystal balls". (Or Tamsyn Muir's Locked Tomb series has "lesbian necromancers in space".)
    • 3eb7988a1663 1 hour ago
      The space vampire really felt like an unnecessary add to the entire thing. Could have established similar sci-fi woo-woo with a super-intelligent test-tube baby who might have some lingering trauma from that development.
    • metaphor 28 minutes ago
      This...coming from someone who did finish it. Such meh execution that it continues to baffle me whenever it makes front page.
  • Verdex 29 minutes ago
    The universe, plot, and characters are all aggressively atheistic[1]. Meanwhile the prose is heavily infused with Christian religious language, references, and allusions.

    Consequently, I'm not really sure who the book is for. I don't know any Christians who like atheistic hard scifi (although, I exist so there must be others). And I don't know many people into hard scifi who really care for the religious imagery.

    Personally, I find the experience to be unique, so I think it's worth it if you can get into it.

    Besides that (and to spoil the point of the book) the biggest flaw is that the author doesnt seem to trust the reader to get the point, which is that consciousness is an unnecessary (and detrimental) evolutionary dead end. Real intelligence is totally orthogonal.

    As a software engineer who has seen very intelligent systems with no more consciousness than a paperclip for decades, I got on board with the premise as soon as it showed up. But then I kind of had to wade through case study after case study highlighting the idea.

    [1] - this isnt atheism that's aggressive, but rather a universe where there's no doubt that there is no god with all of the consequences thereof.

    • ceejayoz 19 minutes ago
      > And I don't know many people into hard scifi who really care for the religious imagery.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperion_(Simmons_novel) is a massive classic and is full of that stuff. The Matrix has The One die and be resurrected as a godlike glowing being.

      Most atheists/Christians aren't as rigid as you imagine.

      > a universe where there's no doubt that there is no god

      The vast majority of scifi (and other genres) doesn't care or take a position either way. Nothing in Blindsight says "there can't be a God"; it has nothing to do with that.

    • krapp 16 minutes ago
      For better or worse Christianity is the shorthand language of Western culture since so much of art philosophy and media draw from it. Plenty of non-religious (and even irreligious) works employ it for symbolism or metaphor, or like Hideaki Anno putting Christian symbolism all over Evangelion, just for the aesthetic.
    • ACCount39 13 minutes ago
      It's the same reason why Evangelion uses a lot of Christian imagery.

      Religion aside, the imagery is undeniably cool. It goes hard.

      No other reason is required.

  • gtsnexp 1 hour ago
    I liked the ideas in Blindsight more than I liked the book. The writing is heavy-handed (trying to be gentle here), especially given how interesting the underlying questions were.
    • jsbisviewtiful 1 hour ago
      Agree. Near the end of the book I was starting to skim pages
      • Verdex 48 minutes ago
        Yeah, the end was in desperate need of another editing pass. He takes you by the head, smashes your face into the ground, and then drags you for half a mile.

        Anyone who gets that far into the book doesn't need to have their hand held that much. I get that it's the entire point of the book, but everything until this point has been a challenging read.

        Personally, I think it might have been interesting to rewrite the whole thing such that conclusion is ambiguous.

  • bumblehean 1 hour ago
    His Rifters books are great as well. Honestly I've never read anything from Watts that I didn't really like.
    • GolfPopper 47 minutes ago
      Rifters should definitely get more attention. A lot like Stand on Zanzibar, circa forty years later.
      • ceejayoz 16 minutes ago
        Rifters has some very, very yikes moments later on in the series.
  • nephihaha 5 minutes ago
    Novelists should not be giving their work away for free like that. AI is bad enough, but writing a novel (even a bad one) is hard work. It just makes it harder for novelists to make a living.
  • devindotcom 1 hour ago
    If you haven't read the book, beware of spoiler warnings in this thread! It's pretty important in this case.
  • esarbe 1 hour ago
    Phenomenal deep book with layers upon layers of ideas. Not a easy read read for a single afternoon, this one really requires you to work for your meal; read, go back, reread with new context, ponder.

    Probably a bit too heavy on ideas for most and those who are only used to lighter cost might find it boring. But for me one my all time favorite sci-fi books.

  • Jordan-117 1 hour ago
    Easily my favorite science fiction novel. And you can read it for free on his website!

    http://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm

    My capsule summary:

    In the 2070s, on the cusp of the singularity, a swarm of alien drones takes a snapshot of the Earth before burning up in the atmosphere. A small crew of bleeding-edge posthumans, all with different physical or mental augmentations, is sent to the outer Solar System to investigate the source. The narrator, Siri Keeton, is an emotionally lobotomized "synthesist" tasked with monitoring the mission and interpreting it for the leadership back home.

    I don't want to spoil its frightening twists, but suffice to say that it shapes up to be a cosmic horror novel where the horror is rooted in abstract ideas like human cognition and the nature of consciousness. The book is peppered with philosophical concepts like the Chinese Room and (real-life) neurological quirks like blindsight, all bent towards smart, existential horror. Like Lovecraft mixed with Oliver Sacks.

    And while the ideas are solid -- the author is a marine biologist who fills the appendix with citations of evolutionary and cognitive research -- what I really love is the prose. Watts is a fantastic hard SF writer, filling every page with authentic, charismatic narration, cinematic imagery, and a way of talking about abstruse scientific concepts in a way that punches you in the gut and chills you to the bone. His style is like a horror version of Douglas Adams, mind-bending ideas and memorable characters with a compulsively readable flow to it.

    Its biggest weakness is that one of the most compelling aspects sounds like a pulpy joke at first glance -- the ship is led by a "vampire." I can't imagine how many people read this on the jacket and took a hard pass on Dracula in Space. But it's not some fantasy gimmick -- it's the in-universe nickname for an ancient, predatory, sociopathically brilliant subspecies of humanity that's been resurrected, Jurassic Park-style, to help manage high-stakes ventures like the first-contact mission. The captain starts off intriguing, quickly grows frightening, and eventually advances one of the book's most disturbing and unforgettable arguments.

    Overall, it's not just my favorite SF novel, but one of my favorite novels, period. The only book I've ever bought a dead-tree copy to be signed by the author. Highly, highly recommended.

    • dlandis 8 minutes ago
      I totally agree. Also one of my favorites. It has a real vibe that sticks with you for a while. It’s not just about whether you like the ideas or his particular prose, etc. He put together a complete work that as a whole really captures something unique and really cool.
    • MattPalmer1086 1 hour ago
      The "vampire" thing was a bit cheesy to be honest, despite being scientifically explained. But conceptually it was quite key to the story. There would probably have been another way to do this.

      Despite that, still one of my all time favorite sci fi books. A fantastic exploration of intelligence, conscioussness and first contact.

  • a3w 1 hour ago
    First the reading at bayesian conspiracy, now here? Own the novel, it was often hard to read, but kinda worth it for the novel concept introduced.