Chinese chipmaker shares surge 470%

(bbc.com)

58 points | by pingou 2 hours ago

7 comments

  • fooker 44 minutes ago
    Prediction - we are going to figure out SOTA AI performance without requiring 1TB of memory within a year or so.

    Of course CXMT, Micron, and family will still be profitable, but maybe not 'surge 470% from IPO' profitable.

    • xyzsparetimexyz 16 minutes ago
      How would we do that? There's no historic precedent for that. Its fundamentally an information theory thing: what's the max amount of intelligence you can get out of 1 KB/MB/GB? There has to be a limit and I'm not convinced that it's far off.
      • londons_explore 7 minutes ago
        It doesn't matter. However much intelligence you can squeeze into 1 GB, people will always want more.

        Standard Def TV was plenty for 50 years. But when more was on offer, everyone went for it, and now you can't even buy a 480p TV.

      • yieldcrv 10 minutes ago
        It’s not just about small models, that’s only one part of evolution

        Some groups are baking models into silicone, Deepmind has an example, it gets 18,000 tokens/sec on Llama 3.1, not sure about parameter size

    • clbrmbr 3 minutes ago
      Are you thinking of fundamental architectural changes (like the Transformer)? Or incremental (like MoE or GQA)? Are there specific neolabs or techs you are following that lead you to this prediction?

      Indeed it seems quite possible we are one architecture breakthrough away from existing chip stock driving us all the way to ASI.

      Nobody has done AFAIK the information theory to prove it’s not possible.

    • raincole 24 minutes ago
      And by the time the models that require 1TB memory will be better.

      It's like people saying mobile chips are going to be better than PC chips... until they realize PC can be made by mobile chips too if that comes true.

    • ImprobableTruth 27 minutes ago
      The fundamental issue is that for these systems bigger is essentially always better (if affordable). So if we can squash something like Kimi K3 down to run on a 'normal' system, that just incentivizes devs to increase the model size until once again we're at the limit of what can be run.
    • Dibby053 30 minutes ago
      What do you base this prediction on? It seems very unlikely, unless by SOTA you mean the current SOTA.
    • dist-epoch 11 minutes ago
      Even if we do, we are going to need a lot of RAM for the billions of agents running everywhere.
    • yieldcrv 33 minutes ago
      that would be perfect timing

      Hyperscalers are screwed, data center mania couldn’t even be completed during this massive spending spree, all while the people seemingly sitting on the sidelines are working on getting these things baked into the OS and chipsets in a way consumers wouldn’t notice

  • jonkoops 48 minutes ago
    EU chip industry: best I can do is eat glue in the corner.
    • altern8 21 minutes ago
      EU: we should create a law regulating the viscosity of the glue being eaten
    • Ampersander 3 minutes ago
      EU bourgeoisie invests in US tech
    • b3orn 39 minutes ago
      EU chip industry: best I can do is power electronics.
      • nimchimpsky 25 minutes ago
        EU Chip industry : ASML, 2nd to only nvidia, 0.5T mkt cap
  • glimshe 1 hour ago
    I have nothing to say about this company's long term potential, but I'm curious to know whether this will become an enormous "tik stok" like SK Hynix became in South Korea. I've watched a short documentary about the investment mania in SK and it's really scary.
    • samrus 1 hour ago
      If the chinese government feels its critical to china's success then it will be backed like alibaba and wechat and others were
    • _trampeltier 1 hour ago
      Tesla is kind the same. Everybody bought it, because it went up so much, less because of the product. I guess every AI would do the same.
      • rokkamokka 53 minutes ago
        I wonder what the effects of TSLA dropping to reasonable levels (a drop of about 90%) would look like.
        • Schlagbohrer 15 minutes ago
          Morgan Stanley said that SpaceX's space activities are only worth $8 per share...
  • blitzar 22 minutes ago
    If the golden stick of memory sitting on Trumps desk has its intended effect - and the US allow Apple to buy memory from CXMT then another 500% surge might happen.
  • shevy-java 37 minutes ago
    The more interesting question is: why does the rest of the world not increase their production prowess? I am aware of most of the reasons, but I am getting tired of the "China is better than the rest of the world". It is more that China did a lot of things that the others either failed to do or no longer wanted to do. Case in point is Germany: from "our cars are best" to "hey, chinese cars are now better" (or, cheaper, for a comparative quality). This constant complaining is so strange. Would that energy not be better spent to try to become better?
    • mosura 27 minutes ago
      It is because in the west we suffer from self inflicted obstacles that make it impossible to get out of our own way. The Chinese gov must think they are playing on easy mode.
    • brabel 20 minutes ago
      50 years ago you could ask the same question about Europe, the USA and Japan: why are they so much more productive than everyone else?

      So others did spend energy on becoming better and now you see a different picture when you look at the world.

    • mschuster91 26 minutes ago
      > Would that energy not be better spent to try to become better?

      The problem is, shareholders have bled Western companies dry in the chase for returns on investments. There is no money left in the companies to retool them to be competitive with China.

      Meanwhile, the CCP just pours dollars into their companies.

      Unfortunately, there is no punishment in Western societies if you run a company into the ground as long as you pay your debts on the way out.

    • dist-epoch 9 minutes ago
      It takes 2 years in EU to get approval to build a shed. Imagine how long it takes to get approvals for a chip factory which uses a lot of water and very toxic chemicals.

      UK has been trying to get approvals for a new runway at Heathrow airport for over 20 years !!! now.

    • raizer88 23 minutes ago
      Because the capitalist west doesn't have strategic view, beside maybe on the defense sector. Everything else must produce profits next quarter not in the next 3 years.
      • Schlagbohrer 13 minutes ago
        It's this. Wall Street won't allow american companies to make long term decisions and long term planning that cost money in the short term, because they want all that money immediately now. Like, right now now. If an executive promised they could deliver big profits in 5 years by spending the next two investing their profits, Wall Street would fire them and put in someone who will happily spend all the profit (plus debt) to do stock buybacks and dividend disbursals.
  • cluckindan 45 minutes ago
    Let’s see them ship some chip first
    • blitzar 19 minutes ago
      > 8% to 9% of the worldwide DRAM market share in 2025

      how much more do they need to ship to satisfy you?

    • feverzsj 39 minutes ago
      The price is similar, as they all rely on same upstream suppliers. The quality is kinda meh.
      • grumbelbart2 21 minutes ago
        They don't have access to EUV machines from ASML though.
        • feverzsj 16 minutes ago
          EUV is only required for highend ram like HBM3E, HBM4.
  • levanlevi 52 minutes ago
    is it retail or hype driven - that's the question
    • feverzsj 41 minutes ago
      It's driven by the supreme leader's grand plan, like everything else there.
      • VulgarExigency 15 minutes ago
        Seems to be working out better than leaving it up to the market